Re: Does EJ advocated a World Government?

[carlos n mancini <cm4@worldnet.att.net>]

Thanks Olaf und Gerd for the response.

I understand your point of Juenger trying to distance himself from any
political group but what has puzzled me is his assertion that he can't deny
his sympathies for the Greens. I don't remember a similar statement
with respect to the Nazis. So my point his stand is clear in his rejection of
the
nazis but unclear (for you at least) when it comes to the Greens.
The assertion seems to me like a political statement in favor of a
controversial political party in Germany.
Julius Evola who shared many of the ideas with Juenger was more consistent in
his rejection of political involvement.

Greetings from the Big Apple

Carlos Mancini



Gerd Groenewold wrote:

> Hello Juenger list people,
>
> I don't often post to this list, but heck, I better add something before
> I become a complete list parasite...
>
> Olaf Schroeter wrote:
> >
> > Hello there Carlos, and everybody else,
> >
> > > I must admit this is my second disappointment with Juenger.
> > > The first one was his support of the Greens (and all of that
> > > New Age bullshit). Maybe a by-product
> > > of his old age.
> > >
> > > Carlos Mancini
> >
> > I'm not at all sure how to phrase this properly: I'm not out to offend
> > anyone and I certainly don't want to start a flame war.
> >
> > But: I certainly think that you have no right to be disappointed by
> > Juenger because he doesn't voice your exact opinions. That Juenger
> > never has supported the Greens in any way, only had come to a few
> > of the same conclusions, is beside the point.
> >
> > Juenger will never be the figurehead for any one political thought or
> > movement or whatever. People have tried to make him into just that
> > (Hitler and Goebbels among them) but he never ever went for it.
> >
> > What makes Juenger so fascinating is the very bandwidth (if that's
> > the right word) of his thoughts. There are parts in his Werke that I
> > (who if anything would consider himself "left of the middle"
> > whatever that means) could never accept as part of my thinking
> > (Kampf als Inneres Erlebnis for example) but which I consider an
> > essential part of the whole Juenger. Parts of "Strahlungen" (the pieces
> > about the death of his son among many) are the exact opposite,
> > without contradicting himself. Juenger's Werk should never be read
> > as the Gospel, it simply isn't meant that way and it won't work (as
> > you, Carlos, have just found out). That doesn't diminish his rank as a
> > writer, thinker and, foremost, human being in the slightest.
> >
>
> Thank you for saying this so well.
>
> A while back someone posted a quote from Juenger to this list where he
> stated the he was neither left nor right, and certainly not in the
> middle.  This is to say, he was not (at least in the latter part of his
> life) political.  To attempt to box Juenger into any part of the
> political spectrum is a mistake.  Indeed, in _The Details of Time_ I
> seem to remember him saying something to the effect of that he would
> rather be a map than merely a sign pointing the way.
>
> I, personally, find very little in Juenger's work that I can truly say I
> disagree with when I look at it in its historical context and when I
> look to see what he is saying beneath the surface.  When he talks about
> a world state, to go to our example here, he is not, in fact, talking
> about the UN as it exists.  When he talks about his affinities for
> certain parts of the ideas of the Greens, this is not to say he would be
> doing handstands in front of his house in joy now that Germany has a
> ruling Social-Democrat/Green coalition.  In fact, I seriously doubt he
> would be happy with things as they stand, at least not any happier than
> he was with things as they stood before.  But then, he was not a
> political pundit, nor a politician.  In attempting to limit him to these
> things, we are missing quite a bit of what actually makes Juenger worth
> reading.
>
> > So, and this goes out to Bertil, it is better (to my opinion) that Juenger
> > shouldn't feature at Weimar (he doesn't have any connections to the
> > city that I would be aware of anyway, and as for the Republik,
> > well...), because which Juenger, so to speak, would it be. I think that
> > Juenger is (thankfully) still a long way from being Goetheized.
> >
>
> Perhaps I am misunderstanding the purpose of a European cultural
> capitol, but while Juenger is certainly not immediately associated with
> Weimar, it is quite wrong not to see him as a European cultural figure.
> Indeed, it goes without saying he is even a German cultural figure.  As
> far as his connections to the Republik, I don't see how that would
> necessarily say anything about whether he should be there, after all, I
> was lead to believe that the days of art in service to the state were
> ended...well, maybe not, but we can pretend ignorance, can't we?  As to
> which Juenger, I guess I see there being only one, one who evolved in
> life quite a bit and who shared in the inconsistancies that any human
> will exhibit, but still only one Ernst Juenger.  Although I would be
> lying not to admit that I am one of those people who should be seen more
> as a "fan" (for dire want of a better word) than an unbiased scholar of
> Juenger, or even as much of a scholar at all, even I believe that it is
> doing a misservice to try to whitewash his life, leaving out the
> controversial or ugly parts.  There is a great deal about Juenger that
> goes against the grain of conventional wisdom, political correctness,
> etc. as well as against the grain of the ideologies of those who would
> typically be on the other side of the fence.  The value I find in
> Juenger comes from this wide "bandwidth," as you have said.  Now, I
> don't know, maybe this whole European Cultural Capitol thing is BS, in
> which case I would suspect that at best if Juenger is included he will
> be chopped up, and it would be better were he not there, but if it is
> anything like what its name should indicate, then he surely does belong
> there, if there is any possibility of doing him some kind of justice.
>
> > So, again, I don't want to offend anyone, but don't blame Juenger for
> > not sharing your opinions, share his, wherever you feel that he's right
> > and don't, if you think you know better.
> >
> > Greetings from a siberian Berlin
> >
> > have nice Sundays the world over
> >
> > Olaf
>
> Having a pretty good Sunday in a Wisconsin where it seems more like late
> September than late November.
>
> GERD