Abdalbarr wrote: The problem is of course that what the greek says can only be true in the dream because we are able to do almost anything from the point of the dreamer. Rather my point is that even our dreams are "authored" and we have very little if any control over them. Maybe at one point in history or even today some people can dream at will, but this knowledge has almost disapeared at the moment. Still we are not the authors of our own destiny and this is EJ's point. Or to quote a piece of the Quran. "No self know which land it will die in." Thomas: I don't know where the truth lies in all this - certainly I believe that a degree of choice does exist, whether that is exercised before or during "little-e" existence. To bring a new book to the discussion, consider Friedrich Baroh in Aladdin's Problem. I see him as a contemporary of ours, or only very slightly in the future. He faces a real problem of what to do with overflowing power. This is our society's situation and we do not know what to do... it seems that Friedrich really does have choice, is forced in fact to make a choice - and his choices will be influential on reality. Guidance may lie for Friedrich in his dreams... Speaking of the arrival of Phares: "We must also ponder whether we are dealing with auto-suggestion. A deep desire projects its dream image into the world. It intensifies, supplants, concentrates reality. For the people around you, you become a pathological case, unless you convince them. They even desire this." Whose deep desire is it that is projected into the world and that will supplant reality? Phares' or Friedrich's or perhaps they are identical. In any case, Friedrich loses a clear sense of the boundary between the worlds - and perhaps his vision is truer than the everyday perspective: "The disturbances were both optical and acoustic. We must distinguish between the external and the internal images that we regard as mirages; yet they can assume shapes that ultimately convince." He has the sensation that his meeting with Phares was organized in advance: "I remembered the signs as if I had carved them into a tree trunk years ago. Now they became visible; I did not notice that they were in the Chinese text. But I grew more and more dumbfounded as I read the letter (from Phares,ed) - if it was a dream, then it was no ordinary one." For Friedrich at least, the dream world is real - and real dreams can transform "real" life - for the visionaries and for those around them. My point is that Friedrich (and by extension, some of us) may actually have more real choice at this particular point in metahistory than at others. At least to the extent that the gods did - they too were subject to Fate. Friedrich is of this ilk - like Aladdin and unlike a Titan, his fortune is that he doesn't have to put himself into motion, as Junger describes it. He is like a god who can erect palaces with a thought, a dream. You may believe these to be palaces of the mind - I am not sure what to think. May I broach a related subject: I am fairly clear on the mythological overthrow of the gods by the Titans (the evidence is all around us!), but what of the inevitable return to divine rule? To Junger this wouldn't be until the 22nd century - whatever the case may be, does anyone know what Greek sources should be read to understand how the Greeks conceived of this transition? Any particular stories or modern interpretations? Thanks for the help. Thomas Friese
Follow Ups to this Message
Replies to this Message
Markup © John King, 2008. Web archive generated Tue, 21st August 2007.