This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C1C239.2F68B440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 EJ, Hobbes and Swift-one more time Richard Brem was kind enough to send me an essay by John Seelye, = =BBHobbes' Leviathan and the Gigantism Complex in the First Book of = Gulliver's Travels=AB, in order to make me think over my views on EJ's = aper=E7u, Gulliver macht Leviathan anschaulich.=20 But after having read Seelye I stand unrepentant. His essay contains too = few hard facts and too much speculation to make me budge. I cannot help = shrugging at his speculation, and his facts do not refute me. The = indisputable facts are: Swift did know Hobbes's works and ideas, and he = disliked them though he may have admired the prose of the great stylist. = So it is not impossible that Swift satirized Leviathan in the first book = of Gulliver's Travels. However, Seelye fails to convince me that Swift's = satirical intention is unambiguously palpable in the text. I think = Seelye does well to use cautious phrases like, this detail x in Gulliver = =BBseems to allude to=AB detail y in Leviathan. The links between the = two texts that Seelye produces in this way are his very own = speculations. A tolerant reader with a fair amount of goodwill may find = them clever and perhaps even suggestive. But I cannot find Seelye's = linking plausible.=20 Let me leave aside those examples that are, to my mind, too close to = hair-splitting or liable to deserve the verdict, an den Haaren = herbeigezogen. Instead, the following drastic and tangible instance.=20 Hobbes defined liberty, as was his habit with other philosophical ideas, = in terms of mechanical motion: =BBAs so of all living creatures, whilst they are imprisoned, or = restrained, with walls, or chains; and of the water whilst it is kept in = by banks, or vessels, that otherwise would spread itself into a larger = space, we use to say, they are not at liberty, to move in such a manner, = as without those external impediments they would.=AB So water that cannot flow just anywhere anytime is not free. Now Seelye = turns to Swift's story and links Gulliver's lack of freedom with the = lack of freedom of his very own water to flow. For Seelye, Hobbes's = metaphorical use of the water-vessel is =BBhighly suggestive of=AB and = =BBcalls to mind=AB Gulliver's dire need to pass water when he is lying = on the ground and unable to move because fettered to the ground by the = Lilliputians. Seelye's elegant literary diagnosis of this unsavoury = detail:=20 =BBApparently a needless Rabelaisian touch, it becomes in this context a = perfect example--scatologically rendered--of Liberty with captivity, = couched in Hobes' own imagery.=AB Maybe I have become too blas=E9 to appreciate such =BBinsights=AB, due = to a d=E9formation professionelle. For quite some years, to earn my = living, I had to read much Sekund=E4rliteratur that was produced under = that pressure peculiar to Academe which relentlessly pushes its acolytes = to publish anything that seems new and original so that they may not = perish without tenure.=20 To be sure, Seelye in particular does not deserve such cynicism from me = because, far from undermining my nasty remark about EJ and Swift/Hobbes, = he corroborates some of my arguments. I agree with him on the point that = Swift and Hobbes had radically different political views. I go even = further and say they were indeed radically different minds. Their texts = are worlds apart.=20 Gulliver's Travels is first of all an immortal tale, a magnificent yarn. = If it was written as a satire, it is a satire on man, but not a satire = on Leviathan and even less an illustration of it.=20 More exciting and convincing seems to me a mere passing remark by = Seelye: that Milton's Paradise Lost might be read as a refutation of = Leviathan. But pardon me, I know, this is the EJ List. Richard, you see I am not too much impressed by your witness from = UofCal. I am more impressed by your own argument: I ought to understand = =BBanschaulich machen=AB in a wider sense. In other words, I ought to be = more receptive to the creative imagination of EJ that made him remember = Hobbes when he read Swift.=20 Maybe I ought to. But after having digested Seelye's essay I feel like = being even more obdurate. Isn't it better to read and enjoy a text = several times than speculating about what it might symbolize?? Or even = to persuade others that it does symbolize, i.e. carry hidden meanings = that need to be divulged? To my mind, this is a questionable method to = handle and understand history and its documents.=20 Faust saw this clearly: =BBWas ihr den Geist der Zeiten hei=DFt, Das ist im Grund der Herren eigner Geist, In dem die Zeiten sich bespiegeln.=AB =20 Faust's creator even hinted at fraud: =20 =BBIm Auslegen seid frisch und munter! Legt ihr's nicht aus, so legt was unter.=AB GR =20 ---------------------------- Dr. G=FCnter Rebing H=FCgel 20 D-53359 Rheinbach Tel./Fax 02226-3980 Mobil 0177-5961331 E-Mail: g.rebing@eplus-online.de und Rebing@t-online.de ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C1C239.2F68B440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#c0c0c0> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </FONT>=20 <H2><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN = lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">EJ,=20 Hobbes and Swift—one more time<?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"=20 /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></H2> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Richard=20 Brem was kind enough to send me an essay by John Seelye, =BBHobbes'=20 <I>Leviathan</I> and the Gigantism Complex in the First Book of = <I>Gulliver's=20 Travels</I>=AB, in order to make me think over my views on EJ's = aper=E7u,=20 <I>Gulliver</I> macht <I>Leviathan</I> anschaulich.=20 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">But=20 after having read Seelye I stand unrepentant. His essay contains too few = hard=20 facts and too much speculation to make me budge. I cannot help shrugging = at his=20 speculation, and his facts do not refute me. The indisputable facts are: = Swift=20 did know Hobbes's works and ideas, and he disliked them though he may = have=20 admired the prose of the great stylist. = <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">So=20 it is not impossible that Swift satirized <I>Leviathan</I> in the first = book of=20 <I>Gulliver's Travels. </I>However, Seelye fails to convince me that = Swift's=20 satirical intention is unambiguously palpable in the text. I think = Seelye does=20 well to use cautious phrases like, this detail x in <I>Gulliver = </I>=BBseems to=20 allude to=AB detail y in <I>Leviathan.</I> The links between the two = texts that=20 Seelye produces in this way are his very own speculations. A tolerant = reader=20 with a fair amount of goodwill may find them clever and perhaps even = suggestive.=20 But I cannot find Seelye's linking plausible.=20 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Let=20 me leave aside those examples that are, to my mind, too close to = hair-splitting=20 or liable to deserve the verdict, an den Haaren herbeigezogen. Instead, = the=20 following drastic and tangible instance. = <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Hobbes=20 defined liberty, as was his habit with other philosophical ideas, in = terms of=20 mechanical motion:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">=BBAs=20 so of all living creatures, whilst they are imprisoned, or restrained, = with=20 walls, or chains; and of the water whilst it is kept in by banks, or = vessels,=20 that otherwise would spread itself into a larger space, we use to say, = they are=20 not at liberty, to move in such a manner, as without those external = impediments=20 they would.=AB<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">So=20 water that cannot flow just anywhere anytime is not free. Now Seelye = turns to=20 Swift's story and links Gulliver's lack of freedom with the lack of = freedom of=20 his very own water to flow. For Seelye, Hobbes's metaphorical use of the = water-vessel is =BBhighly suggestive of=AB and =BBcalls to mind=AB = Gulliver's dire need=20 to pass water when he is lying on the ground and unable to move because = fettered=20 to the ground by the Lilliputians. Seelye's elegant literary diagnosis = of this=20 unsavoury detail: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US>=BBApparently a needless Rabelaisian touch, it becomes in = this context=20 a perfect example––scatologically rendered––of = Liberty with captivity, couched=20 in Hobes' own imagery.=AB</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Maybe=20 I have become too blas=E9 to appreciate such =BBinsights=AB, due to a = d=E9formation=20 professionelle. For quite some years, to earn my living, I had to read = much=20 Sekund=E4rliteratur that was produced under that pressure peculiar to = Academe=20 which relentlessly pushes its acolytes to publish anything that seems = new and=20 original so that they may not perish without tenure.=20 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">To=20 be sure, Seelye in particular does not deserve such cynicism from me = because,=20 far from undermining my nasty remark about EJ and Swift/Hobbes, he = corroborates=20 some of my arguments. I agree with him on the point that Swift and = Hobbes had=20 radically different political views. I go even further and say they were = indeed=20 radically different minds. Their texts are worlds apart.=20 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><I><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Gulliver's=20 Travels</SPAN></I><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">=20 is first of all an immortal tale, a magnificent yarn. If it was written = as a=20 satire, it is a satire on man, but not a satire on <I>Leviathan</I> and = even=20 less an illustration of it. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">More=20 exciting and convincing seems to me a mere passing remark by Seelye: = that=20 Milton's <I>Paradise Lost</I> might be read as a refutation of = <I>Leviathan</I>.=20 But pardon me, I know, this is the EJ = List.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DStandard14><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Richard,=20 you see I am not too much impressed by your witness from UofCal. I am = more=20 impressed by your own argument: I ought to understand =BBanschaulich = machen=AB in a=20 wider sense. In other words, I ought to be more receptive to the = creative=20 imagination of EJ that made him remember Hobbes when he read Swift.=20 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Maybe=20 I ought to. But after having digested Seelye's essay I feel like being = even more=20 obdurate. Isn't it better to read and enjoy a text several times than=20 speculating about what it might symbolize?? Or even to persuade others = that it=20 does symbolize, i.e. carry hidden meanings that need to be divulged? To = my mind,=20 this is a questionable method to handle and understand history and its=20 documents. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DStandard14><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Faust=20 saw this clearly:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">=BBWas = ihr den Geist=20 der Zeiten hei=DFt,<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Das ist = im Grund der=20 Herren eigner Geist,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">In dem = die Zeiten=20 sich bespiegeln.=AB<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 10.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US">Faust's=20 creator even hinted at fraud:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DEN-US=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">=BBIm = Auslegen seid=20 frisch und munter!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Legt = ihr's nicht=20 aus, so legt was unter.=AB</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 10.0pt"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoBodyText3><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 10.0pt">GR<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 lang=3DDE=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: = DE"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080=20 face=3D"Times New Roman">----------------------------<BR>Dr. G=FCnter=20 Rebing<BR>H=FCgel 20<BR>D-53359 Rheinbach<BR>Tel./Fax = 02226-3980<BR>Mobil=20 0177-5961331<BR>E-Mail:<BR></FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:g.rebing@eplus-online.de";><FONT color=3D#000080=20 face=3D"Times New Roman">g.rebing@eplus-online.de</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Times New Roman">und<BR></FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:Rebing@t-online.de";><FONT color=3D#000080=20 face=3D"Times New = Roman">Rebing@t-online.de</FONT></A></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C1C239.2F68B440--
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