[Juenger-list] indoeuropean

[martin.reichel@surfeu.de (Martin Reichel)]

Liebe Jünger Freunde,

um zur Sache zurückzukommen:

inwiefern wird eigentlich die Zitation Jüngers Namen oder aus seinen Werken
in der schönen Literatur (z.B. in Frischs Stiller oder Buchheims Abschied),
wohlgemerkt nicht in wissenschaftlichen Aufsätzen, archiviert?

Beste Grüße

Martin Reichel


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerd Groenewold" <venator@somtel.net>
To: <juenger-list@juenger.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 4:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Juenger-list] indoeuropean


I don't know exactly what your point is, or why, but:

More than a century of German academics would disagree with you about there
being no such thing as Indo-Germanic. Although in English we say
Indo-European, Indogermanisch is, as far as I can tell, the most common
term used in German philological parlance over the last century, not just
pre-1945. My judgment here is based on my work over the last year and a
half as a research assistant for a professor whose specialty is Germanic
philology. I have been primarily engaged in checking over a massive
bibliography. Many of the titles in this bibliography contain the word
indogermanisch or some variant of it.

A justification for the use of this term is that the two components of the
word represent the eastern and westernmost parts of this linguistic group,
at least in its living forms (Tocharian, an Indo-European language, was
spoken further east than India, but it is now quite dead).

If, as I take you to be saying, Germanic as a component of the name is
off-limits because Germanic is an offshoot as opposed to part of the
original (if there was such a thing) language, then the "Indo" component
should similarly be off-limits, since the mother language was clearly not
Indian either (even Sanskrit is significantly removed from IE).

The bit about this designation sounding like a symptom of nineteenth and
twentieth century nationalism is, in my opinion, pretty weak. If the
association were strong, one would be quite surprised at the terms
continued use in German-speaking academia. Perhaps if the term were
something like "Indodeutsch" you would have a point.

What any of this has to do with Jünger, I have no idea.

Gerd

At 11:00 AM 4/4/02, you wrote:
>Indogermanic? Indoteutonic? Etc. That brings us to IndoLatin(and the
>branches) as well as to Indoslavic and by the same reasoning to
>Indoarmenian? Indotocharian? Indohitite? What is wrong with Indoeuropean?
>Which obviously suggests from "India to Europe", correct? This smells to
>me of the over-familiar  "SuiperiorityComplex". There is no such thing as
>Indogermanic. About 5000 years ago, the Germans, the Latins(or Italics)
>were all somewhere in "South Russia-Ukraine-northern tip of Black and
>Caspian seas", communicating with Slavs and all other Indoeuropean peoples
>in a common language which, at that time was most likely already showing
>sings of dialects or traits by the smaller Sub-Tribes. And this is
>interesting, because, you can only have sub-tribes if there is a "Large,
>or main Mother Tribe, which we could call "Proto-Tribe". It obvious that
>small tribes cannot break away from "Nothing". It is inconceivable to me
>that today's linguists are not talking about the Large Group or
>Proto-Group and therefore Proto-Language. If there were only small groups,
>independent of each other, you would also have independent languages,
>which would be influenced by various neighboring peoples and consequently,
>no Proto-Language. So, what was the large Proto-Tribe there, from which
>others could break away? Do we see a Large-Tribe or a Nation today which
>could sustain continuous break-aways of smaller groups and still remain a
>Nation or a large Proto-Tribe? So, Germanic tribe moves away at one point,
>becoming, eventually, one of the Indo-European languages and Nations, and
>to be sure, one of the nations that contributed immensely to the humanity,
>in science and arts, etc. So we have an advanced nation here, and at
>certain historical periods becomes very tempted ( as all others would ) to
>get into this well known garbage about superiority. Indo-Germanish has a
>flavor of "we are the special branch of.....etc. etc.. We all know that is
>not the case. I must make sure that nobody misunderstands me. I studied
>German language in high school in Europe and have the highest regard for
>German achievements. I am  a professional musician and play Bach as much
>as any German musician does, and love. So, I don't want to accused of
>anything "Anti". I just want to say: "Let's stay with "Indo-European".
>Sorry if I went on for too long.
>Sincerely, Ted Lebar.


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