Re: EJ, China and cyclical history

[fs6y097@public.uni-hamburg.de (John King)]

>Found your designation of the cyclical view of history 
>as "daft" interesting but I guess it has to do with the fact 
>that it goes against the British-French rationalist view of
>things. But to be honest I have met people from Britain who
>are willing to discuss the cyclical view of history without
>calling it "daft".  

Oh come on, Bertil. Surely you've read enough of my posts to the mailing
list to realise that I am about the last person to subscribe to any
"British-French rationalist view of things". To return to Spengler -
although he makes much of his non-Newtonian, neo-Goethean "physiognomy" of
World History (an allegedly living, instead of dead, killing, scientific
view), he is basically producing a botany/zoology of world history - his
comparative, morphological method is aimed at predicting history (and
justifying/celebrating the era of Faustian Caesarism). In other words it is
not essentially different from other modern views of history with their
"metanarratives" even if Spengler does start to deconstruct traditional
eurocentric linear narratives (at least in Vol 1 of UdA). But the thrust is
towards a theory of history and it is against theory of history and the
extreme narrative violence that desires a coherent and integrative view of
the past and thus refuses its radical contingency and the polyphony of views
and accounts that are possible. (That's what I flippantly meant by "daft")

>  With Nietzsche's "Ewige Wiederkehr des Gleichen"
>> we're in the realm of the utterly vague, celebrated as the myth of the
>> Uebermensch and preached by Zarathustra. 
>
>Fail to see the connection between the cyclical view of history
>and "the myth of the Uebermensch". Although it is certainly
>correct that Nietsche had an influence on OS the main
>inspirator was Goethe (Klaus P. Fischer, _History and Prophecy:
>Oswald Spengler and the Decline of the West_ (Durham N.C., 1977).

That Spengler was a devotee of Goethe is clear to anyone who reads UdA. He
was also a sharp critic of Nietzsche. What I was trying to do was to
introduce Nietzsche as a second proponent of a cyclical view of history -
what put me on to this was a comment of Armin Mohler's in his "Konservative
Revolution" in which he suggests that a neo-Nietzschean view of history was
what united the disparate right-radical groups of the Weimar Republic. As I
recall the Eternal Return and the Overman are complementary parts of
overcoming Man and his previous illusionary certainties. (Thanks for the
bibliographic tip).

Thanks also for your comments on the second phase of Spengler's development.
It's very hard to comment on Spengler's speculations on ancient culture -
certainly those in UdA are fascinating, but a lack of specialist knowledge
prevents me from assessing them.

>  EJ, in my humble opinion, relies heavily on OS. They are both critical 
>  of the technical development and identify both the real prospect of
>  ecological disaster. Sorry to take up so much bandwidth on this matter
>  but I thought it of interest to the listmembers to take into account
>the 
>  later development of Spengler when viewing his liefwork. 

Wouldn't be quite so pauschal about them both. UdA seems to have two major
strands - first, Spengler's book is tinged with regret at the passing of an
era of cultural vitality and the death of real art. Second, as compensation,
he turns to the precision and power of the industrial-commercial world which
he describes as more typical of the Faustian soul than contemporary art. And
then J's "Arbeiter" and "Veränderte Welt" are scarecely critiques of
technology. (Another question - how does the Gestalt metaphysics of
"Arbeiter" fit into the Kulturseelen metaphysics of "UdA"?)

>Am glad that the role of Spengler as the first civilizationst to
>take other cultures into account but the western is noted above.

Herder? (haven't read him yet - anyone got any thoughts?)

>Like it or not it seems as if the outlines and at least superficially
>western culture equals global culture. I think it is time to take a
>look at EJs _Der Weltstaat_.

Good point. The flip side of globalisation is fragmentation. Coke and MacDs
as empty signs? Consumption without ideology? Hm...

Best wishes from HH,

John K