---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Thomas Hobbes and EJ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:34:44 +0200 From: "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b@tninet.se> To: <juenger.list@juenger.org> To Andrea Strazzoni, Personally I would like to relate Waldgaenger to Hobbes bellum omnium contra omnes but possibly more the necessity of fighting an state that could be evil. Schmitt wrote about Hobbes quite a lot. On the other hand there is the reflection of Martin Meyer: "Alle Versuche, das denken Carl Schmitt mit jenem von Ernst Juenger nicht nur in - berechtigte - Verbindungen zu bringen, sonder engzufuehren und zu parallelisieren, scheitern an "Wesens"differenzen. Schmitt war zwar theoretisch, nie aber existentiell am Typus des politischen Widerstaendlers... Frueher als Carl Schmitt sah Ernst Juenger, das ein totalisierender Staat die Menschen nicht mehr als Subjekte fuer "gute" oder "b=F6se" Optionen gelten laesst, sondern sie zu Objekten ideologischer Manipulier- barkeit herabsetzt. Die Ordnung selbst ist boese geworden." (pp. 414-415)= =2E With best wishes Bertil Haggman > What do you think are the connections between the thinkings of Thomas > Hobbes and EJ? > > (For me, primarily, 1)the pessimism about the natural condiction (but E= J > with his "waldgaenger" didn't want to use the same ideolgical bases of > liberalism, like Hobbes and Locke' state of nature. EJ wrote about the > "urgrund", what has in common with the Hobbesian state of nature only t= he > hard and pessimistic aspect). 2) the teory of the monster-state, the > Leviathan (but EJ and Hobbes were on tho different sides about this).) Mr. Bertil Haggman, LL.M. author Member, Swedish Writer's Union E-mail: mvk575b@tninet.se "It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win." Douglas MacArthur "All warfare is based on deception." Sun Tzu -------------------------------------------------------
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