RE: Glass Bees discussion

["Lluerna Cultural" <lluerna@oninet.es>]

Mr. Brem,

Where has this conversation between Jünger and Borges been published? Has
it been translated to English or Spanish( or perhaps French)? I´ve seen
pictures from this interview in Wilflingen but never read the conversation
betwen my two favourite writers.

Thanks in advance.

Dani

----------
> De: Richard Brem <llr@magnet.at>
> A: EJ Maillist <ernst-juenger-l@maillist.ox.ac.uk>
> Asunto: Re: Glass Bees discussion
> Fecha: sábado 26 de septiembre de 1998 3:40
> 
> -- [ From: Richard Brem * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> >We got stuck last night here on this paragraph in the Bogen/Meyer
> >translation. The narrator, in describing Zapparoni's first automatons,
> >says: 
> >
> >	"On the smaller scale they gave the impression of >intelligent ants,
> distinct units working as mechanisms, that is, not >at all in a purely
> chemical or organic fashion. This was one of >Zapparoni's business
> principles, or if you will, one of the rules of his >game. When faced
with
> two solutions, it seemed as if he almost >always preferred the more
subtle
> one. This corresponded with the >trend of the times, and he was not the
> worse for it." p.6
> >
> >We talked for hours on the concept of intelligence in the first
>sentence. 
> >Where does the intelligence lie - in the individual unit or in the team
>of
> units. The analogy is after all ants. How are ants intelligent? Or >bees
for
> that matter?
> 
> Analogies like this seem to me to be references to the idea of
> "Gruppenseele" (collective soul or hive mind) as formulated by E.N.
Marais 
> ("The Soul of the White Ant") and Maurice Maeterlinck ("La vie des
abeilles"
> , "La vie des termites"). 
> 
> "Adnoten": The concept of "Gruppenseele" seems to have been a major issue
in
> occultism in the 20s - at a time, when EJ had a deep interest in the
occult.
> 
> 
> The ants also feature in Juenger's conversation with Jorge Luis Borges 
> (which took place in Wilflingen on October 27, 1982):
> "Then about Huxley – I took the view that the 'Weltgeist' had solved the
> problem of political order better in the case of the insects than we had
> done for us. Borges replied: 'Maybe so as far as concerns the interests
of
> the State, but the single ant counts for nothing.'
>      But against that one could argue that all are provided for. They
have a
> place to live in, food and full employment, also a long hibernation sleep
in
> the winter. 
>      Most of them are excluded from a sexual life, which could perhaps
even
> be a relief. But from love as well? When I stood in front of one of their
> ant-hills in the noon-time sun and put my hand over them and it became
> moistened as they scurried about and waved their feelers I believed I
could
> feel that they are happy. There should be some research into that; but we
> agreed that zoologists are hardly in a position to do it." 
> 
> The idea of the collective soul or hive mind has become quite fashionable
> again. Kevin Kelly, executive editor of "Wired" magazine, devoted the
second
> chapter of his book "Out of Control. The New Biology of Machines" (London
> 1994) to this very idea. Kelly sees the Internet as a huge beehive: "Just
as
> a beehive functions as if it were a single sentient organism, so does an
> electronic hive, made up of millions of buzzing, dim-witted personal
> computers, behave like a single organism. Out of networked parts -
whether
> of insects, neurons, or chips - come learning, evolution, and life." 
> 
> I'm not sure if Juenger would agree with Kelly and his optimistic
> interpretation of technology; in "The Glass Bees" he definitely didn't.
> 
> Regards,
> RBR
> 
> PS.: Here's the German original:
> 
> "[Zapparonis Spezialitaet waren die Liliputroboter. Von gewissen
Ausnahmen
> abgesehen, lag ihre obere Grenze bei der Groesse einer Wassermelone,
> waehrend sie nach unten ins Winzige gingen [Nanotech!, RBR] und an
> chinesische Kuriositaeten erinnerten.] 
> Dort wirkten sie wie intelligente Ameisen, aber immer noch in Einheiten,
die
> als Mechanismen, also nicht etwa auf molekulare Weise arbeiteten. Das
> gehoerte zu Zapparonis Geschaeftsmaximen oder, wenn man so will, zu
seinen
> Spielregeln. Oft schien es, als ob er zwischen zwei Loesungen um jeden
Preis
> die raffiniertere bevorzuge. Aber das lag im Wesen der Zeit, und er stand
> sich nicht schlecht dabei." 
> 
> "Glaeserne Bienen", 1. Kapitel 
> 
>